(Showtime) Williams vs. Ishida, Cloud vs. Campillo (February 18)

[Ringside]

Why that cotton-pickin' nig..........

No way King said that..I love Boardwalk Hall...lots of seaGULLS on the boardwalk...
I love Nucky.....Padrino

[Rabid Kimba]

I hate Nucky...he snuffed Jimmy Darmody...not cool...lol.

[Ringside]

I hate Nucky...he snuffed Jimmy Darmody...not cool...lol.

But he has a weakspot in his own way.....and I love when he has sex..he looks so unsexy..lol....Padrino

[Mexican Eagle]

Why that cotton-pickin' nig..........

LOL who isn't racist in the U.S even that old granny that greets shoppers at your local wallmarts hates your guts. Open your eyes Kimba nobody likes Mexicans. Especially blacks.

[Mexican Eagle]

No way King said that..I love Boardwalk Hall...lots of seaGULLS on the boardwalk...
I love Nucky.....Padrino

Oh yeah like Don King has such high moral character LOL

Wasn't Don King in prison for mudering a man? Only in America!

[Valdosta]

I'm starting to look at boxing differently with all these crazy decisions. In this case Campillo should not have acted comfortably and raised his hands like he won in the latter rounds. He lost round 6 and the last round and 10-7 in the first to me...but in the new real world of boxing when you face a Don King opponent..be humble if you are winning.. or face the wrath...that seems to be part of the message these days... ...the show counts too, the boxing up to a point.....Ringo

Yeah but to even get a draw Cloud had to win 5 rounds. I can give him 3 or 4 at the most but this wasn't 1 of those fights with lots of close rounds. Campillo won most of his very clearly. He was screwed although I do agree a bit about him celebrating to early that shouldn't matter.

[TysonFan]

For the record I thought Campillo should have gotten the decision.

I really hadn't seen much of Cloud until last night that really impressed me. Last Night I thought Cloud was impressive. Cloud took a lot of clean shots but kept coming on. Cloud never gave the impression he was a beaten fighter. Cloud is a tough fighter.

[10 count]

For the record I thought Campillo should have gotten the decision.

I really hadn't seen much of Cloud until last night that really impressed me. Last Night I thought Cloud was impressive. Cloud took a lot of clean shots but kept coming on. Cloud never gave the impression he was a beaten fighter. Cloud is a tough fighter.

You were seriously impressed with that performance?? He was pathetic for someone as highly regarded as he is.

[10 count]

Are we even sure that Campillos knee even touched the ground for that 2nd knockdown? Looked marginal to me.

[Michael Matos]

I had Campillo up by two, giving Cloud four rounds. At times I thought Campillo did a lot of flailing, maybe the judges held that against him a little more than I did.

[Michael Matos]

Are we even sure that Campillos knee even touched the ground for that 2nd knockdown? Looked marginal to me.

The held up in the ropes/ropes prevented a knockdown call.

[Jack1000]

Campillo-Cloud Master Scoresheet is here:

I think judge Dave Robertson's 116-110 Cloud card is one of the worst I have ever seen. It's up there with Jean Williams giving Holyfield the first Lewis fight:

http://i.imgur.com/mfk5d.jpg

Jack

[Jack1000]

My scoring breakdown:

I gave Cloud round 1 of course with the two big knockdowns.

Both did good in round 4. However, outside of the big first round for Cloud, rounds 4 and 6 may be his only good rounds of the fight for him.

I gave him round 4, but that round could have gone either way. I thought close rounds will go to the champion and this was a close round.

Round 6 was close, but I gave that to Campillo.

Round 12 was close, but only because Campillo stepped off the gas obviously thinking he had the fight in the bag. Gave that round to Cloud. (Barely.)

The only rounds anybody could give Cloud in my view would be 1, 4, maybe 6, and maybe 12.

Cloud's little stumble in the 11th does not justify him winning the round.

Campillo EASILY won 8 of the 12 rounds. And the only reason for sort of close scoring, would be Campillo's 10-7 first round deficient, which he overcame beautifully.

With the strong exception of the first round, the only other rounds Cloud won, he BARELY won. And for the rounds that Campillo won, he dominated those rounds, but still lost the split decision.

Jack

[Rebel]

Campillo should've won a close decision.

It's hard to say where Williams is these days until he faces another threat. Would love to see him vs. Kirkland.

As for Ishida, I say give him another shot against one of the other top 154 lbers. I get the feeling PW was
just a really bad style for him.

[Jack1000]

I DVR all fights for later viewing and all during the fight as good as it was I had a feeling that Cloud was gonna get a bad win. Fast Forwarding from the final bell to the announcement of the decision, sadly, I was right.

Jack

[Jack1000]

On the Cloud-Campillo Controversey:

While image and marketing of a fighter from a big promoter may have always generated positive scoring bias, I think it is worse now. Bias can spread not only to the commissions, the sanctioning bodies, and even the commentary. For instance, how many times has Jim Lampley commented in a negative way about an HBO contracted fighter? Pom-Pom shaking in this business is stronger than ever and it trickles down to all involved.

However, bias can be reduced in several ways:

1.) Use only world class officials in major championship fights-Harold Lederman mentioned this again in this fight, and after Williams-Laura. The IBF appointed Mark Nelson to ref the Cloud-Campillo fight. He is a good ref, and his father Denny was assigned as judge, which is OK. Maybe they are not the greatest in the world, but acceptable. However, they left the Texas Commission to pick two judges with no title fight experience. You don't do that for a world championship fight.

2.) When promotional power of each fighter is balanced out along with neutral experienced officials, bias can be greatly reduced or even eliminated altogether. If Cloud had fought Hopkins or Dawson, or a big name opponent under someone like Golden Boy or Top Rank, we would not likely be having this conversation. Lou Dibella is no slouch, that's for sure, but he doesn't have the power of Arum, Golden Boy, or King nor a fighter with a good decision win in his history. Of course even experienced officials can show bias, such as the very close Diaz-Malinaggi fight, in which the match was no more than a two-point edge for either fighter, Texas judge, Gale Van Hoy, despite his experienced, carded 118-110 for hometown hero Diaz.

However, these solutions sadly don't do anything for the fighters like Emmanuel Augustus, who as a journeymen gives good fights, but had a history of getting fucked on decisions. Look at his fight with Cortney Burton, where most observers gave Burton three rounds TOPS. One of the judges came out with a 99-90 Burton scorecard. Or Arum promoted Paulie Ayala against Hugo Dianzo. Everybody on the planet had Hugo winning that fight from 118-110 to 116-112. All three judges had the gave the fight (although close) to Arum promoted Ayala to secure for him a big payday.

Just as bad was Pierre Benoit, the new Jersey aging judge who had been around for years favoring Paul Williams over Sergio Martinz by a score of 119-110! That was another fight that could have, and should have gone either way. And we are talking about a champion in Sergio Martinez and at the time, still a good fighter in Paul Williams. It was great that Sergio got that shocking KO in the rematch.

It is just a shame that when there are bad decisions, that they can overturn how great the action was inside the ring.

Jack

[Goyo]

wow this gentleman Jack1000 is like the conscience of boxing. someone should anoint him the czar of boxing. i bet he could clean this mess of a sport up instantly !

[El tanke]

Campillo should've won a close decision.

It's hard to say where Williams is these days until he faces another threat. Would love to see him vs. Kirkland.

As for Ishida, I say give him another shot against one of the other top 154 lbers. I get the feeling PW was
just a really bad style for him.

I agree I think Pwilliams was a bad match up for ishida. Im not high on the guy, but he seems like a decent fighter, he could pose problems for other top fighters at 154. Match him up with Angulo, so one of the can redeem himself

[El tanke]

LOL who isn't racist in the U.S even that old granny that greets shoppers at your local wallmarts hates your guts. Open your eyes Kimba nobody likes Mexicans. Especially blacks.

Lets be honest here, not even Mexicans like Mexicans , and racismn is alive and well. even in good ol mejico.

[Jack1000]

wow this gentleman Jack1000 is like the conscience of boxing. someone should anoint him the czar of boxing. i bet he could clean this mess of a sport up instantly !

Afraid not. It's just when there is a really bad decision, solutions like the above come back into my head. Many boxing people have said the same things, but very little is ever done. Hard to do with an international sport, and a lot of times the inmates who are running the asylum,

I think one solution that might work is finding a way to make judges more accountable and responsible for their decisions. Open Scoring of any kind is NOT the answer because it does nothing to improve the accountability of bad judging. But maybe if the David Robertson's and Joe Elizondo's, the new faces of horrid judging, faced strong suspensions, other officials might think twice before they submit asinine scorecards like they did.

Given Texas' history, they will get, if anything, a slap on the wrist and be back judging at most in a month's time when the short-memory public will have forgotten all about them and the fight.

Jack

[Jack1000]

For the record I thought Campillo should have gotten the decision.

I really hadn't seen much of Cloud until last night that really impressed me. Last Night I thought Cloud was impressive. Cloud took a lot of clean shots but kept coming on. Cloud never gave the impression he was a beaten fighter. Cloud is a tough fighter.

Cloud has great courage and balls for fighting after taking a beating like that. It was still a good fight with a sick decision. I don't think Cloud can fight well going backwards. Cloud has tunnel-vision. When things start to go wrong. he becomes a very ordinary fighter who has trouble adjusting.

Jack

[Michael Matos]

wow this gentleman Jack1000 is like the conscience of boxing. someone should anoint him the czar of boxing. i bet he could clean this mess of a sport up instantly !

Jack says the same thing about Jack.

[Jack1000]

More information about the Cloud-Campillo protest and process from Ring TV:

Lem's latest: Campillo protests Cloud verdict; Williams eyes title shot | RingTV

Jack

[Jack1000]

IBF says no rematch. Understands decision was not popular, but finds no evidence of wrongdoing. Campillo wants the two judges suspended who voted for Cloud. Texas has not said no.......yet. But is requesting more information.

I think it's hard to prove wrongdoing, even though judge David Robertson's 116-110 Cloud card, is one of the worst top five cards, at least top 10 that I have seen:

From ESPN:

IBF denies Gabriel Campillo's plea for rematch with Tavoris Cloud - ESPN

Jack